I just want to run this by everyone

[djohnston]

and see if we are all on the same page. There are a lot of strange and terrible happenings all over the world. I believe we are going to see an acceleration of them in the future. Rob, (ka9yhd), I and others have posted a few external articles about government abuses that are just now coming to light in the news. As far as I can recall, all of them have been related to using the internet and computers. As the days continue, I hope that we can stay on course by keeping posts of any government abuse articles limited to those that are internet and/or computer related.

I may be guilty of crossing that line already. If I am, or if I cross it in the future, please point it out to me. I, for one, do not want to bring any undeserved attention to this website or to our group of users. They ARE listening.

What is your opinion?

[melodie]

Hi,

If I could I would get all what you bring in of the kind, translated to French. Why wouldn't you bring in information about what the governments do with our freedom and our privacy? You have the right to express your disagreement with how they treat the people, first asking our vote then abusing of their power to submit us into… into what? Fear? Cowardliness? Sheepishness, sort of.

Better than that: having brought my attention to these topics triggered me to talk about it to some people I meet with here and there, IRL. I think this is important that what some people (such as Snowden) have revealed be spread out, while they have been putting their quiet and wealthy life at risk for this purpose.

[Slystone]

well, I don't know about that. I tend to hate politics too. But Eben Moglen has recently made a point with his speech “ Innovation under Austerity ” saying that nobody would get elected on the sole basis of defending personal liberties. And speaking about innovation and austerity, he said that we had the answer (how to produce innovation under austerity and resume growth), and that this subject was our entry into politics for what we really care : our liberties and a free Internet. He cited the example of what happened in the last generation : the business around Internet and the cloud computing.

Well, you would have to watch the whole speech, but I would say we should not stray away from politics, not because we haven't been heard in the last decades on the subject of personal liberties. It's the way we say which has to change. Speak first about nerd innovation, freedom to hack and invent, and then say that we can contribute only if we're free to do so.

[patrick013]

If they are in the news, computer related, security or privacy
related, why not ?

After reading many stories where ISP's could hack a computer,
I'm fairly convinced that encrypted internet doesn't exist,  when
mid-level govt. security employees can see them, 99% of the time
without any result or reason.   CPU's have secret commands you can input
to a computer thru a web browser, etc. and the list goes on.

So which enemy should be under surveillance, people from terrorist
countries or third party candidates in local US elections because they're
not from the right special interest group ?    Hear that if you'd like.

When they, the NSA I guess, is trying to locate and capture the enemy
monster their real challenge is not becoming a monster themselves.

[djohnston]

Thanks for voting and posting, Patrick.

If they are in the news, computer related, security or privacy
related, why not ?

That is the distinction I am trying to make. That stories posted are internet and/or computer related. Melodie's opinion is that it doesn't matter whether the posts are internet and/or computer related or not.

It's Melodie's forum, and it's ultimately her decision. But I wanted to see what others think.

[melodie]

I am also interested to know what others think, not because it is "my" forum : it's all our's ! You may consider me as a mayor for this village.

Nothing more, nothing less. When you will not want me as "mayor" anymore, you can take care of updating, securing, dealing with the annoying stuff. Or create a linuxvillage with another TLD, if it's a need. Else than that we all share the same wish, being able to meet together through space and timezones, share ideas, questions, information and so on, freely and in a friendly way.

[djohnston]

When you will not want me as "mayor" anymore, you can take care of updating, securing, dealing with the annoying stuff.

No, thanks. You're elected! 

[melodie]

Our Fore Fathers left Europe for a reason.

Wasn't it "to find a new country" ?

[melodie]

Nope............ Read history.

History is a complex thing.

[patrick013]

History is a complex thing.

Well Christopher Columbus discovered America.

The 13 British colonies were the only successful structured
attempt at structured goverment on that shoreline.

The British King was leading everything into tyranny.

George Washington gets the credit for changing that,
with many of the precepts in the older magna carta actually
put into the US Constitution, as well as business and
government directives req'd for a successful operating
federation under God included as well.

13 colonies grew into 50 similar states.   So here we are today.

Please don't ask for further details, just the way it is.

[melodie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

Amerigo Vespucci discovered what has been named America, then after the people there didn't like what the British crown requested from them they organized a tea party. The Boston tea party…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

There is also a very interesting story related to the Irish immigrants in the late 18xx's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York

The film begins in 1846 but quickly jumps to 1862. The two principal issues of the era in New York were Irish immigration to the city and the Federal government's execution of the ongoing Civil War. The story follows Bill "the Butcher" Cutting (Daniel Day-Lewis) in his roles as crime boss and political kingmaker under the helm of "Boss" Tweed (Jim Broadbent). The film culminates in a violent confrontation between Cutting and his mob with the protagonist Amsterdam Vallon (Leonardo DiCaprio) and his allies, which coincides with the New York Draft Riots of 1863.

Quite a complex story. Many immigrants where moving from the Old World to start a new life in a New World, and what world!

Still presented nowadays as the "country of the second chance", defined by others as the country of the 1000 pounders. The place where there are the more students owing the more money for having taken mortgage to pay their studies, the first country where the pollution began to be so hight that people in some states could not use the water from the tap any more because it was flowing dark. And so much more.

[patrick013]

@Melodie

Wait a minute !

Amerigo drew the map...Christopher "discovered" the place.

Boston Tea Party ?    Hmmm.....    Read the whole Declaration
of Independence please.

Student mortgages ?    Best bet is to get a cheapo 2 yr. degree  from
a local community college and go to night school sometimes at your
employers reimbursement for your full 4 yr. degree.    State Universities
will drive anyone bankrupt and their employment rates aren't that high
either.    Community colleges (2 yr.)  can be taught too hard but are generally
more practical and employment related, if any jobs are available.

Pollution ?     Many factories on Lake Michigan closed due to that and the
water still is hard but in the best in the US.     Always a concern on an average
lake which isn't that good in the first place, but many restaurants.    I know
towns that don't have restaurants because their available water is just too hard.

Irish in New York, never been there, never seen them, all understand.


A few thoughts then.

[djohnston]

Amerigo Vespucci discovered what has been named America, then after the people there didn't like what the British crown requested from them they organized a tea party. The Boston tea party…

That's quite a jump. Vespucci's first voyage was in 1499, and the Boston Tea Party happened some 270 years later, in 1773. However, Vespucci didn't "discover" America, although the three western continents are named after Amerigo. Vespucci's first American voyage was 5 years after Christopher Columbus landed in the West Indies, probably on the island of San Salvador, in the Bahamas.

If you want to get really technical, north America was probably "discovered" by the Norse Viking Leif Ericsson circa 1000 AD. Leif's journals describe the sea grapes that grow wild along the coast of what is now Newfoundland.

One of the enduring mysteries about the "discovery" of the Americas is the story of the Piri Reis map. Piri Reis was a Turkish admiral and cartographer. There are some indications that Columbus carried with him a map drawn by the Turkish admiral. In any case, a group of historians discovered a surviving map in 1923. The controversy over the discovered map is this:

The Piri Reis map shows the western coast of Africa, the eastern coast of South America, and the northern coast of Antarctica. The northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed. The most puzzling however is not so much how Piri Reis managed to draw such an accurate map of the Antarctic region 300 years before it was discovered, but that the map shows the coastline under the ice. Geological evidence confirms that the latest date Queen Maud Land could have been charted in an ice-free state is 4000 BC.

[melodie]

I like very much the way you present history. I have also read about a viking who discovered the American continent several centuries before Christopher Columbus. (In French we name him Christophe Colomb).

[patrick013]

I like very much the way you present history. I have also read about a viking who discovered the American continent several centuries before Christopher Columbus. (In French we name him Christophe Colomb).

My revelations are straight from American History taught right
here in Chicago, IL, USA

Leif Erikson, tho recorded, explored northernmost regions of
North America only, resulted in no sustained settlements, so the
main discovery and start of modern history was attriibuted
to Christopher Columbus, who I recollect was an Italian sailor
working with Spanish financing out of the Spanish port of Palos, Spain.

wikis aren't always 100% to me it seems.

THX