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21
Travaux contributifs dans le Libre / Re : Bento Maki - ce qu'il y a dedans, quoi de neuf
« Dernier message par melodie le 12 janvier 2018 à 02:43:34 »
Hello Taco,


I plan to make Maki when I start working on 16.04, so no worry about users upgrading to 16.04. About current updates, I would consider using this "autoUpdate" script which is a cron script, in /etc/cron.daily instead of the classic update manager:

#!/bin/sh

startDate=`date +%Y%m%d_%H:%M:%S`
LOG="/var/log/autoUpdate.log"
test_serveur='exemple.com'
nb_jours=14
[ "`ping -c1 -i1 ${test_serveur} | grep '100% packet loss'`" != "" ] &&
echo "Reseau inaccessible" >> ${LOG} && exit 1

for l in `seq 2 ${nb_jours}`
do
    idx=$((nb_jours + 1 - l))
    old_idx=$((idx - 1))
    [ -f ${LOG}.${old_idx} ] && \mv ${LOG}.${old_idx} ${LOG}.${idx}
done
[ -f ${LOG} ] && \mv ${LOG} ${LOG}.1
echo "-- Demarrage a: ${startDate} --" > ${LOG}
for action in `echo update dist-upgrade autoremove`
do
    apt-get -y ${action} 2>&1 >> ${LOG}
done

A buddy from my LUG wrote it on my request on the mailing list, I have been using it for several weeks now, and I didn't find any glitch so far. You can give it a try if you want, and if you do, you will see the logs in /var/log/ as autoUpdate.log* files (14 days before the eldest one is deleted).


I would like to make Maki a basic version, as finished as Bento is, but I would not include any GUI application except for a web browser, a text editor and the GUI file manager. This way it will be basic : which means people can then add what they want, but it will provide a more finished environment than what Sushi offers (not many people seem interested in Sushi anyway so far, I think geeks prefer busenlabs, the successor of Crunchbang, or even Archbang, the Openbox version of Archlinux).

I might have it come with chromium-browser, pcmanfm, and geany, but will change the geany.desktop file to have it appear in a "accessories" category instead of "programming" (because it scares the newbees). Or maybe I'll put leafpad, to make it much lighter on disk space. I will also install Synaptic, and the usual sound system, pavucontrol… deadbeef, mpv… so it won't be too hard for the users to start with it.
Ok to add make, gcc,and extlinux (without unnecessary depends or recommands, of course, and if it does not pull in too much).

The other kinds of tools, libreoffice, gnome software center (the replacement of the actual software-center), and other music, graphics etc. would be in a full version which this time would be a much large ISO, perhaps 1.6 GB, perhaps more.

This is the idea… One for the users who like choosing their apps themselves, one with lots of good programs in all categories. Let's see if people like it?


I didn't understand what you mean when you write "Basic bits of kit that just work in the background" ?


basic bits of kit? What is it?


***

Bonjour Taco,


Je prévois de créer Maki quand je commencerai à travailler sur 16.04, alors ne t'inquiète pas si les utilisateurs passent à 16.04. À propos des mises à jour actuelles, je considérerais utiliser ce script "autoUpdate" qui est un script cron, dans /etc/cron.daily au lieu du gestionnaire de mise à jour classique:

#!/bin/sh

startDate=`date +%Y%m%d_%H:%M:%S`
LOG="/var/log/autoUpdate.log"
test_serveur='exemple.com'
nb_jours=14
[ "`ping -c1 -i1 ${test_serveur} | grep '100% packet loss'`" != "" ] &&
echo "Reseau inaccessible" >> ${LOG} && exit 1

for l in `seq 2 ${nb_jours}`
do
    idx=$((nb_jours + 1 - l))
    old_idx=$((idx - 1))
    [ -f ${LOG}.${old_idx} ] && \mv ${LOG}.${old_idx} ${LOG}.${idx}
done
[ -f ${LOG} ] && \mv ${LOG} ${LOG}.1
echo "-- Demarrage a: ${startDate} --" > ${LOG}
for action in `echo update dist-upgrade autoremove`
do
    apt-get -y ${action} 2>&1 >> ${LOG}
done

Un copain de mon GUL l'a écrit à ma demande sur la liste de discussion, je l'utilise depuis plusieurs semaines, et je n'ai trouvé aucun problème jusqu'à présent. Tu peux essayer si tu le souhaites, et si tu l'essaies, tu trouveras les journaux dans /var/log/ des fichiers autoUpdate.log * (14 jours avant que le plus ancien soit supprimé).


Je voudrais faire de Maki une version de base, aussi finie que Bento, mais je n'inclurai aucune application graphique excepté un navigateur web, un éditeur de texte et le gestionnaire de fichiers GUI. De cette façon, il sera basique: ce qui signifie que les gens peuvent ajouter ce qu'ils veulent, mais cela offrira un environnement plus fini que ce que propose Sushi (peu de gens semblent s'intéresser au Sushi jusqu'ici, je pense que les geeks préfèrent les busenlabs, le successeur de Crunchbang, ou même Archbang, la version Openbox d'Archlinux).

Je pourrais y installer chrome-browser, pcmanfm, et geany, mais en ce cas je changerai le fichier geany.desktop pour qu'il apparaisse dans une catégorie "accessoires" au lieu de "programmation" (parce que le terme programmation fait peur aux débutants). Ou peut-être que je mettrai leafpad, qui est beaucoup plus léger sur l'espace disque. Je vais aussi installer Synaptic, et le système de son habituel, pavucontrol ... deadbeef, mpv ... donc ce ne sera pas trop dur pour les utilisateurs de commencer avec ça. Pour le reste, libre à eux de préférer VLC Smplayer, ou autre, etc.

Ok pour ajouter make, gcc, et extlinux (sans dépendances ou paquets recommandés inutile et si ça n'installe pas trop de paquets en plus).

Les autres types d'outils, libreoffice, Gnome Software Center, (le remplacement du centre logiciel actuel), et d'autres logiciels de musique, graphisme, etc. seraient dans une version complète qui cette fois serait une grande image ISO, peut-être 1,6 GB, peut-être plus.

C'est l'idée ... Une pour les utilisateurs qui aiment choisir leurs applications, une avec beaucoup de bons programmes dans toutes les catégories. Voyons voir si ça leur plait ?


Je n'ai pas compris ce que vous voulez dire quand vous écrivez "des morceaux de base de kit qui fonctionnent juste en arrière-plan" ?


Morceaux de base de kit ? Qu'est-ce que c'est ?
22
Travaux contributifs dans le Libre / Bento Maki - ce qu'il y a dedans, quoi de neuf
« Dernier message par Taco.22 le 11 janvier 2018 à 14:47:31 »
On dirait qu'un Bento de taille moyenne est en préparation - Bento Maki, une plus grande forme de sushi!

Les règles sont grossièrement: ISO final moins de 700MB (j'utilise la compression xz et d'autres choses pour compresser max, donc je ne peux pas faire plus sur cette partie), facile pour tous les utilisateurs, respecter les lois (certains outils comme libdvdcss2 pour être installé plus tard par l'utilisateur ou par les helpers des utilisateurs, il suffit d'aller dans / usr / share / libdvdread4 et de vérifier les informations qui s'y trouvent).

Quelques inclusions suggérées -
   make
   gcc
   extlinux
   brasero-cdrkit
   grsync

Des morceaux de base de kit qui fonctionnent juste en arrière-plan. Sauf grsync - il met un visage à une application de fond!

J'ai changé d'avis à propos de Startup Disk Creator. Maintenant que je suis en train de remasteriser sur du métal nu et non de la VBox, ça semble faire l'affaire. Cependant, je ne voudrais pas inclure Software Center et Update Manager. Ils ajoutent presque 60mb à une construction (avant la compression), et dupliquent apt-get et Synaptic. Développement a également cessé pour Software Center, et il est une idée effrayante que quelqu'un peut prendre la "option" de "mise à jour" à 16.04 sans vraiment se rendre compte de ce qu'ils font!

Quoi d'autre? Navigateur, graphiques, musique, etc. Oh, et illustrations.



It looks like a mid size Bento is in the works - Bento Maki, a bigger form of sushi!

The rules are roughly : final ISO less than 700MB (I use the xz compression and other things to compress max, so I can't do more on this part), easy for all users, respect the laws (some tools such as libdvdcss2 need to be installed later by the user or by the helpers of the users, just go to /usr/share/libdvdread4 and check the information there).


Some suggested inclusions -
   make
   gcc
   extlinux
   brasero-cdrkit
   grsync

Basic bits of kit that just work in the background.  Except grsync - it puts a face to a background app!

I have changed my mind about Startup Disk Creator.  Now that I am remastering on bare metal and not VBox it seems to be doing the job.  However I would not include Software Center and Update Manager.  They add almost 60mb to a build (before compression), and duplicate apt-get and Synaptic.  Development has also ceased for Software Center, and it is a scary thought that someone may take the "option" of "updating" to 16.04 without quite realising what they are doing!

What else?  Browser, graphics, music etc.  Oh, and artwork.

 
23
Hi Mélodie,

I stand corrected - hsetroot can use other file formats.  I couldn't find that line you quoted anywhere but I did try it in my own config.  It worked but didn't play so well with my rc.xml.

Hi Taco,

well, open the console, then type or copy/paste:

cd .config/openbox/lang then

mcedit autostart-en
then you can read the content of the file and search for that line.


Citer
Have no fear, I am working with your clean version of Bento, as well as playing with others.


have you read the text in the readme file in English which is located in .config/openbox ?


Citer
I have about six different machines on VBox, and it is by messing with things that I notice discrepancies.  I noticed another small omission - brasero-cdrkit.  This allows Brasero to turn a live CD into an ISO9660 file.  I just found a couple of old CDs and converted them - one was the final Blackcat Astro and the other was good old Bonsai!  It's good to have them back in the collection.

Bento performs fine - there are no glitches with the system.  As for software inclusions - make, gcc, file-roller, extlinux and brasero-cdrkit.

It's probably missing due to the rule of the "less than 700MB" which I continue to apply. Perhaps it might be best if you opened a specific thread to list applications (one per line) which you would want absolutely to see in a middle version. (Bento Maki).

The rules are roughly : final ISO less than 700MB (I use the xz compression and other things to compress max, so I can't do more on this part), easy for all users, respect the laws (some tools such as libdvdcss2 need to be installed later by the user or by the helpers of the users, just go to /usr/share/libdvdread4 and check the information there).

Citer
Could I suggest that you delete Startup Disk Creator - pkg usb-creator-gtk.  I have found it to be unreliable and there are quite a few complaints online.  I have found that unetbootin has always done a good job, regardless of platform, and it's in the repo.

Good idea, we will gain space. If you open a thread related to applications to be added, I would also welcome a section of what could be removed.

Thanks for these good ideas!


Citer
P.S - I also tried booting Bento live in French.  Looked all French to me - couldn't understand a word, so it must have worked  ;D
 


not completely, the right-click menu on the desktop is in English until you switch willingly with the menu meant for, and the "Quit" displays "shutdown" instead of "éteindre". There is more French once installed, but even then the language gtk tool to remove English and install missing language packages needs to be used.
   
24
Hi Mélodie,

I stand corrected - hsetroot can use other file formats.  I couldn't find that line you quoted anywhere but I did try it in my own config.  It worked but didn't play so well with my rc.xml.

Have no fear, I am working with your clean version of Bento, as well as playing with others.  I have about six different machines on VBox, and it is by messing with things that I notice discrepancies.  I noticed another small omission - brasero-cdrkit.  This allows Brasero to turn a live CD into an ISO9660 file.  I just found a couple of old CDs and converted them - one was the final Blackcat Astro and the other was good old Bonsai!  It's good to have them back in the collection.

Bento performs fine - there are no glitches with the system.  As for software inclusions - make, gcc, file-roller, extlinux and brasero-cdrkit.

Could I suggest that you delete Startup Disk Creator - pkg usb-creator-gtk.  I have found it to be unreliable and there are quite a few complaints online.  I have found that unetbootin has always done a good job, regardless of platform, and it's in the repo.


P.S - I also tried booting Bento live in French.  Looked all French to me - couldn't understand a word, so it must have worked  ;D     
25
Hi Taco,

hsetroot does power the background image in Bento Sushi, it's a jpg image. Here an extract from the /etc/skel/.config/openbox/lang/autostart-en:

Citer
# root desktop, test
#hsetroot -solid '000000'
hsetroot -extend /usr/share/bento/backgrounds/wall4.jpg

it would make me happy that you would try the default configurations I put in both the full Bento and the Sushi version, and which have request loads of work to refine.  :)

26
Hi Mélodie,

For wallpaper hsetroot doesn't do images unless they are BMP format.  Feh works fine in conjunction with both PCmanFM  and Thunar.  I remember playing with iDesk and Thunar many years ago, but I have no interest in icons - I prefer a clean desktop.  I have done a couple of versions of Bento where I have replaced PCmanFM with Thunar.  That gets rid of any desktop conflict or issues - well it works for me!  It actually takes me back to those first builds at PCLinuxOS - amongst them Blackcat, an OB astronomy spin.  That was eight or nine years ago  :o

But I digress.  One other piece of software missing from Bento is extlinux - unetbootin needs it to load an ISO onto a usb stick.
27
Help requests / Re : Bento defaulting to base OB
« Dernier message par melodie le 08 janvier 2018 à 17:23:41 »
I might end up producing a Bento special Taco, with a root background.  ;)

Best,
Mélodie

28
Hi Taco,

I'll take your thoughts in consideration, but not for the software-center : it's not just been dropped, it's been replaced with a gnome software center, which is not too bad once you get used to this different presentation.

About the default files:

you get .config/openbox and also .config/pcmanfm and also .config/libfm, which is the directory of the pcmanfm library.

Ok, now this said, you can always revert as you well know... getting them back from /etc/skel.

In .config/openbox the symlinks just point to the sub-directory .config/openbox/lang which is where are the files for the openbox menus shortcuts language. You might give it a try, once the files are again there, right click on the desktop and see : it's default is English. Other options are French and German (this latter, not quite up to date, I fear).


You ALSO have *readme files* in the directory, where you have all explanations about how to set it up to your liking! And in the autostart file under .config/openbox, you have plenty comments, default in English, to help you make it as you like!

1 ) you don't need feh, hsetroot does the same job, and is default installed for it's needed by openbox to get a dark splash instead of grey.
2 ) you can use idesk - program to show icons on the desktop

how to configure it? Once idesk is started, go into it's ~/.idesk directory, look at the examples and from there add the icons you want (manually) on the desktop. This is how I had done a pclinuxos kde with xsnow running in it, back in time. :D
(still keeping a copy, as it was a unique one with a very special setup/and look and feel : http://downloads.linuxvillage.org/miscellaneous/ISOS/PCLinuxOS_En/)

(xsnow needs a root background to work… Then even now in all Bento you can have 2 different setups, just look into the default menu.xml file, you'll find some tricks there with the tags containing "xsnow", and also the related bash script to start/stop xsnow in /usr/local/bin … it just needs to install xsnow from the respos).


29
Help requests / Re : Bento defaulting to base OB
« Dernier message par Taco.22 le 08 janvier 2018 à 16:55:32 »
Hi Mélodie,

Just a quick update on the issue with my daughter's laptop.  I don't know quite what happened with it but it turned into quite a conflict with pcmanfm and it trying to control the desktop.  The desktop manager stayed active and kept interfering with conky and setting wallpaper.  In the end I deleted pcmanfm and replaced it with Thunar.  All is now working.  I don't know why the ~/.config/openbox folder was being deleted - all I can think is that something was triggering a confused response.  Almost like it was setting up for a new user, but not quite.  Who knows - computers can be fickle things at times!!


Salut Mélodie,

Juste une mise à jour rapide sur le problème avec l'ordinateur portable de ma fille. Je ne sais pas exactement ce qui s'est passé avec, mais il est devenu un conflit avec pcmanfm et il essayait de contrôler le bureau. Le gestionnaire de bureau est resté actif et a continué à interférer avec Conky et la mise en fond d'écran. À la fin, j'ai supprimé pcmanfm et l'ai remplacé par Thunar. Tout fonctionne maintenant. Je ne sais pas pourquoi le dossier ~ / .config / openbox a été supprimé - tout ce que je peux penser est que quelque chose déclenchait une réponse confuse. Presque comme c'était la mise en place pour un nouvel utilisateur, mais pas tout à fait. Qui sait - les ordinateurs peuvent être des choses capricieuses parfois!!
30
Hi Mélodie,

Well I've got Bento in both VBox and VMware!  I had forgotten that I had installed VMware - it was a while back.  Anyway, I realised that File-roller is missing from Bento-openbox-14.04.5_2-x86_64.  If you are going to fix that you may as well add make and gcc.  I would still recommend deleting Software Center as that has been dropped from 16.04 anyway.

I'm having issues trying getting conky and pcmanfm to play nicely.  The first thing I do with an OB spin is replace the ~/.config/openbox folder with my own custom version.  Have done so for many years - all my mini distros based on Debian, PCLinuxOS and Ubuntu have had this set of files.  What I had forgotten is that that masks any issues with conky and pcmanfm's role as keeper of the desktop.  Your default Openbox files use symbolic links that link back to somewhere (I have forgotten exactly where) in the system.  So by replacing those files with copies that aren't links solved the issue - conky now works.  Now for some reason I can't get the custom action in pcmanfm that uses feh to set wallpaper to work.  This is the default version of Bento in VMware.  The same version in VBox has had my standard treatment done and has no issues, as have all the installed Bento systems on our real computers.   

Of course it could be just me!!  Conky is an integral part of my "desktop", and I have no requirement for a desktop manager - no icons or folders or other crud.  I actually find that Thunar is a better match because there are no desktop conflict issues that you get with pcmanfm.  But everything is always a compromise.  If you want icons you need pcmanfm.  If you want conky as well then there is conflict.  I remember this when LXDE first came out - it never really got sorted.

Anyway, as is the system works just fine.  Just me being awkward   ;D


Salut Mélodie,

Eh bien, j'ai Bento à la fois dans VBox et VMware! J'avais oublié que j'avais installé VMware - c'était il y a longtemps. Quoi qu'il en soit, j'ai réalisé que File-roller est absent de Bento-openbox-14.04.5_2-x86_64. Si vous voulez corriger cela, vous pouvez aussi ajouter make et gcc. Je recommanderais quand même de supprimer Software Center car il a été supprimé de 16.04 de toute façon.

J'ai des problèmes en essayant de faire en sorte que conky et pcmanfm jouent bien. La première chose que je fais avec un spin OB est de remplacer le dossier ~ / .config / openbox avec ma propre version personnalisée. Je l'ai fait pendant de nombreuses années - toutes mes mini distributions basées sur Debian, PCLinuxOS et Ubuntu ont eu cet ensemble de fichiers. Ce que j'avais oublié, c'est que cela masque tout problème avec le rôle de conky et pcmanfm en tant que gardien du bureau. Vos fichiers Openbox par défaut utilisent des liens symboliques qui pointent vers quelque part (j'ai oublié exactement où) dans le système. Donc, en remplaçant ces fichiers par des copies qui ne sont pas des liens résolus, le problème - conky fonctionne maintenant. Maintenant, pour une raison quelconque, je ne peux pas obtenir l'action personnalisée dans pcmanfm qui utilise feh pour définir le papier peint pour travailler. C'est la version par défaut de Bento dans VMware. La même version dans VBox a fait faire mon traitement standard et n'a aucun problème, comme tous les systèmes Bento installés sur nos vrais ordinateurs.

Bien sûr, ça pourrait être juste moi !! Conky fait partie intégrante de mon "bureau", et je n'ai pas besoin d'un gestionnaire de bureau - pas d'icônes ou de dossiers ou d'autres crud. En fait, je trouve que Thunar est une meilleure correspondance car il n'y a pas de problèmes de conflit de bureau que vous obtenez avec pcmanfm. Mais tout est toujours un compromis. Si vous voulez des icônes, vous avez besoin de pcmanfm. Si vous voulez conky aussi, il y a conflit. Je me souviens de ça quand LXDE est sorti - il n'a jamais vraiment été trié.

Quoi qu'il en soit, comme le système fonctionne très bien. Juste moi étant maladroit  ;D

   
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