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LinuxVillage welcome => Rules and life of the forum => Discussion démarrée par: djohnston le 04 août 2013 à 20:03:15

Titre: I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: djohnston le 04 août 2013 à 20:03:15
and see if we are all on the same page. There are a lot of strange and terrible happenings all over the world. I believe we are going to see an acceleration of them in the future. Rob, (ka9yhd), I and others have posted a few external articles about government abuses that are just now coming to light in the news. As far as I can recall, all of them have been related to using the internet and computers. As the days continue, I hope that we can stay on course by keeping posts of any government abuse articles limited to those that are internet and/or computer related.

I may be guilty of crossing that line already. If I am, or if I cross it in the future, please point it out to me. I, for one, do not want to bring any undeserved attention to this website or to our group of users. They ARE listening.

What is your opinion?

Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: melodie le 05 août 2013 à 00:58:14
Hi,

If I could I would get all what you bring in of the kind, translated to French. Why wouldn't you bring in information about what the governments do with our freedom and our privacy? You have the right to express your disagreement with how they treat the people, first asking our vote then abusing of their power to submit us into… into what? Fear? Cowardliness? Sheepishness, sort of.

Better than that: having brought my attention to these topics triggered me to talk about it to some people I meet with here and there, IRL. I think this is important that what some people (such as Snowden) have revealed be spread out, while they have been putting their quiet and wealthy life at risk for this purpose.
Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: Slystone le 05 août 2013 à 14:45:11
well, I don't know about that. I tend to hate politics too. But Eben Moglen has recently made a point with his speech “ Innovation under Austerity ” saying that nobody would get elected on the sole basis of defending personal liberties. And speaking about innovation and austerity, he said that we had the answer (how to produce innovation under austerity and resume growth), and that this subject was our entry into politics for what we really care : our liberties and a free Internet. He cited the example of what happened in the last generation : the business around Internet and the cloud computing.

Well, you would have to watch the whole speech, but I would say we should not stray away from politics, not because we haven't been heard in the last decades on the subject of personal liberties. It's the way we say which has to change. Speak first about nerd innovation, freedom to hack and invent, and then say that we can contribute only if we're free to do so.
Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: patrick013 le 05 août 2013 à 21:05:57
If they are in the news, computer related, security or privacy
related, why not ?

After reading many stories where ISP's could hack a computer,
I'm fairly convinced that encrypted internet doesn't exist,  when
mid-level govt. security employees can see them, 99% of the time
without any result or reason.   CPU's have secret commands you can input
to a computer thru a web browser, etc. and the list goes on.

So which enemy should be under surveillance, people from terrorist
countries or third party candidates in local US elections because they're
not from the right special interest group ?    Hear that if you'd like.

When they, the NSA I guess, is trying to locate and capture the enemy
monster their real challenge is not becoming a monster themselves.
Titre: Re : Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: djohnston le 05 août 2013 à 22:42:02
Thanks for voting and posting, Patrick.

If they are in the news, computer related, security or privacy
related, why not ?

That is the distinction I am trying to make. That stories posted are internet and/or computer related. Melodie's opinion is that it doesn't matter whether the posts are internet and/or computer related or not.

It's Melodie's forum, and it's ultimately her decision. But I wanted to see what others think.

Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: melodie le 06 août 2013 à 00:15:48
I am also interested to know what others think, not because it is "my" forum : it's all our's ! You may consider me as a mayor for this village. ;)

Nothing more, nothing less. When you will not want me as "mayor" anymore, you can take care of updating, securing, dealing with the annoying stuff. Or create a linuxvillage with another TLD, if it's a need. Else than that we all share the same wish, being able to meet together through space and timezones, share ideas, questions, information and so on, freely and in a friendly way.

Titre: Re : Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: djohnston le 06 août 2013 à 04:01:53
When you will not want me as "mayor" anymore, you can take care of updating, securing, dealing with the annoying stuff.

No, thanks. You're elected!  ;)
Titre: Re : Re : Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: melodie le 06 août 2013 à 08:40:11
Our Fore Fathers left Europe for a reason.

Wasn't it "to find a new country" ?
Titre: Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: melodie le 07 août 2013 à 08:10:19
Nope............ Read history.

History is a complex thing.
Titre: Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: patrick013 le 07 août 2013 à 20:47:56
History is a complex thing.

Well Christopher Columbus discovered America.

The 13 British colonies were the only successful structured
attempt at structured goverment on that shoreline.

The British King was leading everything into tyranny.

George Washington gets the credit for changing that,
with many of the precepts in the older magna carta actually
put into the US Constitution, as well as business and
government directives req'd for a successful operating
federation under God included as well.

13 colonies grew into 50 similar states.   So here we are today.

Please don't ask for further details, just the way it is.
Titre: Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: melodie le 07 août 2013 à 22:15:48
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci)

Amerigo Vespucci discovered what has been named America, then after the people there didn't like what the British crown requested from them they organized a tea party. The Boston tea party…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party)

There is also a very interesting story related to the Irish immigrants in the late 18xx's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_of_New_York)

Citer
The film begins in 1846 but quickly jumps to 1862. The two principal issues of the era in New York were Irish immigration to the city and the Federal government's execution of the ongoing Civil War. The story follows Bill "the Butcher" Cutting (Daniel Day-Lewis) in his roles as crime boss and political kingmaker under the helm of "Boss" Tweed (Jim Broadbent). The film culminates in a violent confrontation between Cutting and his mob with the protagonist Amsterdam Vallon (Leonardo DiCaprio) and his allies, which coincides with the New York Draft Riots of 1863.

Quite a complex story. Many immigrants where moving from the Old World to start a new life in a New World, and what world!

Still presented nowadays as the "country of the second chance", defined by others as the country of the 1000 pounders. The place where there are the more students owing the more money for having taken mortgage to pay their studies, the first country where the pollution began to be so hight that people in some states could not use the water from the tap any more because it was flowing dark. And so much more.

Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: patrick013 le 07 août 2013 à 22:58:50
@Melodie

Wait a minute !

Amerigo drew the map...Christopher "discovered" the place.

Boston Tea Party ?    Hmmm.....    Read the whole Declaration
of Independence please.

Student mortgages ?    Best bet is to get a cheapo 2 yr. degree  from
a local community college and go to night school sometimes at your
employers reimbursement for your full 4 yr. degree.    State Universities
will drive anyone bankrupt and their employment rates aren't that high
either.    Community colleges (2 yr.)  can be taught too hard but are generally
more practical and employment related, if any jobs are available.

Pollution ?     Many factories on Lake Michigan closed due to that and the
water still is hard but in the best in the US.     Always a concern on an average
lake which isn't that good in the first place, but many restaurants.    I know
towns that don't have restaurants because their available water is just too hard.

Irish in New York, never been there, never seen them, all understand.


A few thoughts then.
Titre: Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: djohnston le 08 août 2013 à 00:05:21
Amerigo Vespucci discovered what has been named America, then after the people there didn't like what the British crown requested from them they organized a tea party. The Boston tea party…
That's quite a jump. Vespucci's first voyage was in 1499, and the Boston Tea Party happened some 270 years later, in 1773. However, Vespucci didn't "discover" America, although the three western continents are named after Amerigo. Vespucci's first American voyage was 5 years after Christopher Columbus landed in the West Indies, probably on the island of San Salvador (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Salvador_Island), in the Bahamas.

If you want to get really technical, north America was probably "discovered" by the Norse Viking Leif Ericsson (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2033038,00.html) circa 1000 AD. Leif's journals describe the sea grapes that grow wild along the coast of what is now Newfoundland.

One of the enduring mysteries about the "discovery" of the Americas is the story of the Piri Reis map. Piri Reis was a Turkish admiral and cartographer. There are some indications that Columbus carried with him a map drawn by the Turkish admiral. In any case, a group of historians discovered a surviving map in 1923 (http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_1.htm). The controversy over the discovered map is this:

Citer
The Piri Reis map shows the western coast of Africa, the eastern coast of South America, and the northern coast of Antarctica. The northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed. The most puzzling however is not so much how Piri Reis managed to draw such an accurate map of the Antarctic region 300 years before it was discovered, but that the map shows the coastline under the ice. Geological evidence confirms that the latest date Queen Maud Land could have been charted in an ice-free state is 4000 BC.

Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: melodie le 08 août 2013 à 00:22:28
I like very much the way you present history. I have also read about a viking who discovered the American continent several centuries before Christopher Columbus. (In French we name him Christophe Colomb).
Titre: Re : Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: patrick013 le 08 août 2013 à 00:44:41
I like very much the way you present history. I have also read about a viking who discovered the American continent several centuries before Christopher Columbus. (In French we name him Christophe Colomb).

My revelations are straight from American History taught right
here in Chicago, IL, USA

Leif Erikson, tho recorded, explored northernmost regions of
North America only, resulted in no sustained settlements, so the
main discovery and start of modern history was attriibuted
to Christopher Columbus, who I recollect was an Italian sailor
working with Spanish financing out of the Spanish port of Palos, Spain.

wikis aren't always 100% to me it seems.

THX
Titre: Re : Re : Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: djohnston le 08 août 2013 à 03:54:06
wikis aren't always 100% to me it seems.

Especially Wikipedia.
Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: kjdixo le 31 janvier 2016 à 11:24:07
Citer
If they are in the news, computer related, security or privacy
related, why not ?

I think we need to concentrate on the technical aspects . . . but also not be afraid to delve into the political agendas that are driving the government over-reach.

Since 2013 (1913 to be more accurate) a nightmare of incidents and crises have been unfolding before our eyes on the mainstream media. This is not by chance and it is mostly engineered crises.
In many cases you are being told lies and propaganda by the mainstream media which serves the governments and corporations. The politicians are often 'bought and paid for' using lobbying, bribes, blackmail and other coersion methods and vested interests.
The history books can be rewritten by the victors of the wars, as they strive to tie up all the loose ends in the aftermath.
Spoils of war are the profits, that all too often, were the main hidden purpose of the war in the first place.
We are time after time tricked and pushed into wars by carefully planned and executed psy-ops.
Modern television and newspaper empires are run by people with agendas, so vote with your feet and ignore them, or maybe for the sake of 'know thy enemy' take only an occasional look.
More people are waking up to government agendas and as a result are turning to alternative media, not all of which is to be believed, some of that stuff itself is psy-op trolling type propaganda.
False staged events are used to sway public opinion to justify wars to benefit the investors in the military industrial complex and to justify the introduction of more draconian laws.
We are rarely consulted and so the 'powers that be' just do what they want, helped by the 'revolving door' between government and the corporations.
Do your own 'due diligence' research and I am sure that you will find these subjects all very fascinating and scary. Also you will then be 'armed' with more knowledge than most of the 'dumbed-down public'.
The vast majority of people (the masses / the sheeple) are either blissfully unaware, or are happy to go along with it all - and do as they are told, provided their TV screens are getting bigger and their cars are getting shinier.
Computers and hi-tech all increase government surveillance and can also be used by criminal elements.

The 'powers that be', engineering all the conflict, are hoping that we will fight each other . . it is one of their methods - 'divide and conquer' then 'order out of chaos' (problem reaction solution), we must see through this and not blame the wrong people.

To repeat . . . I think we need to concentrate on the technical aspects . . . but also not be afraid to delve into the political agendas that are driving the government over-reach.

Tech tip - wrap your chip and pin card in tin foil.
Joking of course. :D
Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: melodie le 01 février 2016 à 01:14:15
Not true. They act for the people's good!

http://i1.wp.com/meets.citrotux.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2006/03/bickel-moutons-loup.png

:p
Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: kjdixo le 01 février 2016 à 09:28:33
Thanks melodie . . . I am starting to learn French.

moutons loup = sheep wolf
everything is fine!
we take care of you!
for your safety


(http://dorsetpatriot.net/images/bickel-moutons-loup.jpg)

I like the satirical art of  David Dees http://ddees.com/ (http://ddees.com/) - there are galleries of his work on his website.
For example

(http://dorsetpatriot.net/images/walmart.jpg)
Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: melodie le 01 février 2016 à 23:23:01
Yes fun… Though I don't really see the link with what you wrote just before. Just fyi, on the image from Bickel, the writing on the building in the end of the path is "slaughter house".
Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: kjdixo le 02 février 2016 à 00:27:23
Bickel yes I can see his humour . . . and the word is the same in English . . . abattoir.
David Dees in his satirical art, highlights corruption in today's era and shows the 'hidden hands pulling the strings'.
He often portrays ordinary citizens in modern society as unaware victims (sheeple) who are enjoying being brainwashed and killed by their unhealthy lifestyles.
There is also the brainwashing (propaganda) from the controlled media and the corporate takeover of the government to consider.
To highlight the horrors of the modern age ddees sometimes compares today to 50 years ago.
Sorry if I can see the link and others cannot, David Dees would be able to see the link.

Anyway it does not matter really.

To appreciate satirical art one has to concur with the subject material, otherwise it is not funny.
 8)
Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: melodie le 02 février 2016 à 00:55:38
Then I see. Just I don't know the guy and most of his styles, and also in Europe the average weight of the people is far lower than what can be seen in US. So I was not sure what the connection was with your presentation of the situation. Well, in fact you might appreciate to read that some other people think alike (http://www.syti.net/GB/SilentWeaponsGB.html). Then in French (http://www.syti.net/Topics.html), the "topics", and also the "topics2 (http://www.syti.net/Topics2.html)".
Titre: Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: kjdixo le 02 février 2016 à 08:20:41
Ok thanks for showing me http://www.syti.net/
I will look at it in more detaii later.
Also in my post I did not say there was any kind of link to my original writings.
I said (in response to you showing me the Bickel cartoon).
Citer
I like the satirical art of  David Dees http://ddees.com/ - there are galleries of his work on his website.
For example
My reason for posting that, was in response to your post (not to my post).
You showed me some satirical art (a cartoon) and so I thought you might be interested in my favourite satirical artist.
So in a way I suppose, I used your comment to bring the topic back to my original writings (fair enough).

On that topic (mass mind manipulation and propaganda).
Mark Twain once said something like . . . "It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled".
Therefore when I try to convince people that things are not what they seem . . .  their normal reaction is to disagree with me and say I am a conspiracy nut.
Eventually though, they start to realise there might be some truth in what I tell them.
It is very satisfying when they eventually begin to tell me similar things and I can then say "I told you so".
It is difficult to convince people as they mostly believe the mainstream media and government and corporate lies.
The annoying thing is that in Britain we have to pay a TV license fee, which is used to feed us all the mainstream BS.
I don't watch the mainstream British TV but I still have to pay.
The alternative media also sometimes deliberately, or unknowingly, misleads people . . . half of it might be dis-information, so you need to be very careful and sift through it, without taking it on face value. Very difficult. People can't be bothered to do that.

When people tell me that this or that politician is good, I think "shall I tell them what I know? . . ." sometimes it is not worth all the effort because they don't want to listen and will 'put up a wall'.
Also some people have not got the mental capacity to think and analyse things very deeply . . . so telling them would be like throwing 'pearls to swine' it would be pointless.
Like explaining technical things to non-technical people . . . they haven't a clue so they have to take a 'leap of faith' to take on board what you are saying and even then they don't understand what you are talking about.
All good fun.
Titre: Re : Re : I just want to run this by everyone
Posté par: melodie le 02 février 2016 à 22:41:50

Mark Twain once said something like . . . "It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled".

I'll retain this one! So true! So good!