Auteur Sujet: Start New Project  (Lu 7003 fois)

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konaexpress

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Re : Re : Re : Re : Start New Project
« Réponse #30 le: 30 janvier 2013 à 20:59:26 »
And wouldn't you expect people not knowing what a partition is, to avoid installing an operating system without the help of someone qualified ?

No, I think that this is an old Linux way of thinking. Have to make it easier for users to get installed IMHO.

konaexpress

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Re : Start New Project
« Réponse #31 le: 30 janvier 2013 à 21:01:52 »
It's kind of a shame what has happened with PCLOS. It was the easiest to remaster.

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Re : Re : Re : Start New Project
« Réponse #32 le: 30 janvier 2013 à 21:04:02 »
Taco.22 is waxing poetic. I like it!

Yes very poetic indeed ! XD

But not all close to truth. When I started under Linux, one of the very first writings I published has been related to the "Linux Country Voyage". You can see a mix of it and of someone else's I liked very much, here. (in the title, replace "fake" by something such as "here it is!", and I hope the rest of the text is not too much far from a good translation).



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Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : Start New Project
« Réponse #33 le: 30 janvier 2013 à 21:09:49 »
No, I think that this is an old Linux way of thinking. Have to make it easier for users to get installed IMHO.

I will ask you to commit yourself to spread the Linux/Gnu word around you, and experiment with people geographically close to you, wherever you are. Recently I pushed an old couple of people out of Vista to Lubuntu. In both systems (they now have a dualboot) they confuse password for the system, password for the mail access and password for the the ISP connection. I had to give them a full course to make that more clear to them, plus a few other tricks, such as configuring a mail client for them so that they get it more simple to manage their messages.

Please, let me know if you get personal experiences with that (I don't say all users are like that, but many around here are).

"Easier for users": sell them hard drives or even better : machines with preinstalled easy to go Linux distributions... it will be a bit easier but this will not teach them how to use a machine.



Good leaders being scarce, following yourself is allowed.

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Re : Re : Start New Project
« Réponse #34 le: 31 janvier 2013 à 00:27:47 »
It's kind of a shame what has happened with PCLOS. It was the easiest to remaster.

I have to say that Remastersys is not much harder.  Set the system and make sure /etc/skel is organised and the remastering pretty well does the rest on its own. 

Regarding gparted, many installers don't allow partitioning on the fly.  Usually you have to set the partitions before hand.  One point to remember - if you don't want to waste space on swap just set it to 2 or 3MB; you can't NOT have a swap partition but you can make it almost non-existent. 

@melodie
Regarding Synaptic - does it allow a simulated install?  The other thing with apt-get/apt-cache is being able to print lists, searches and processes to a text file really easily.   
Example, in terminal "ejt@scorpio:~$ apt-cache search chromium-browser > list" writes a text file as -
Citer
chromium-browser - Chromium browser - transitional dummy package
chromium-browser-dbg - chromium-browser debug symbols transitional dummy package
chromium-browser-inspector - page inspector for the chromium-browser - transitional dummy package
chromium-browser-l10n - chromium-browser language packages - transitional dummy package
chromium-l10n - chromium-browser language packages
Nifty!
What can go wrong !!!

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Re : Start New Project
« Réponse #35 le: 31 janvier 2013 à 01:11:28 »
Yes, you can fake the install of a package. Select, select for installation, hit the button "Apply" then it shows you a list of packages which will be installed, the total amount of MB pulled in, how much space it will take once all installed, then you can choose to confirm or to cancel.

You can even download without installing, if for instance you just want to look inside a package to see what it contains. (Then you will have to seek for it into /var/cache/apt/archives)



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djohnston

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Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : Re : Start New Project
« Réponse #36 le: 31 janvier 2013 à 06:01:58 »
Recently I pushed an old couple of people out of Vista to Lubuntu. In both systems (they now have a dualboot) they confuse password for the system, password for the mail access and password for the the ISP connection. I had to give them a full course to make that more clear to them, plus a few other tricks, such as configuring a mail client for them so that they get it more simple to manage their messages.

Ooooh, pushed out of a vista. Did they have a hard landing? Seriously, though, did they? Hardy har har. Seriously, though, there are many like that. I still do service calls for a woman about my age running PCLinuxOS. Bless her heart, though, she just does not understand computers at all. She will call occasionally with either an email problem or a printer "problem". I can usually diagnose either with a quick dialin to her computer using TeamViewer. The last time I had to go to her house was to replace a router.

When she does call, she usually begins with "I can't get into my computer." Translated, it means she can't access her email account. "I can't print" means she has messed up the print job queue. I have instructed her several times on how to use both the HP printer toolbox and CUPS. It all goes in one ear and out the other. She pays me well to fix minor problems.

Like I said, she was previously using Windows Vista. I was called because she couldn't do anything with her computer at all. Bad infestation. After my first service call, she was running Linux. That was two and a half to three years ago. I can recall only four or five service calls since. Two were for hardware.

"Easier for users": sell them hard drives or even better : machines with preinstalled easy to go Linux distributions... it will be a bit easier but this will not teach them how to use a machine.

Exactly.

@konaexpress,

Those users who would have trouble with partitioning would, most likely, never feel capable enough to reinstall Windows. Nor would they have the patience to download from the net all the service patches, then download and install all the apps they had. Their data would most likely have never been backed up. All the data stored in "My Documents" on their boot drive would most likely not be recovered. Any user who knew enough to be able to use a proprietary solution to recover their data would also have no problems installing almost any Linux distro. If it isn't pre-installed "from the factory", most people will take their computer to the "experts" at Geek Squad or a similar shop for software "repair" and/or a "tuneup".

"My computer just starts running slower and slower the longer I use it. It just picks up all this stuff that clogs it up." We may laugh about that, but that exact statement was made to me once. Along with, "Well, the computer won't run without Windows."

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Re : Start New Project
« Réponse #37 le: 31 janvier 2013 à 06:56:04 »
There was something else about Remastersys that actually makes it easier to use than Mylivecd- the live cd uses /etc/skel, and doesn't pick up the user account.  This means that it doesn't matter what mess the rest of the user account is in, you only have to have /etc/skel in order.  None of this - "Oh, I forgot to turn off hidden folders in my File Manager" - that sort of thing.  The one small disadvantage to this is that Mylivecd allowed you to set up a special live desktop with installer and info icons that disappeared when /etc/skel was invoked at install.  As long as you didn't forget or overlook anything of course.
What can go wrong !!!

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Re : Start New Project
« Réponse #38 le: 31 janvier 2013 à 11:15:27 »
There might be a way to add icons to desktop for the Live with Remastersys as well. I have been given a way for Ubuntu, by adding a script, so it makes me think that it might be possible for Debian too with Remastersys ?

the example is here:
http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?pid=11901361#p11901361

The script (with description translated to English):
in $WORKDIR/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/26desktop_launchers
#!/bin/sh

PREREQ=""
DESCRIPTION="Adding launchers on the Desktop"

prereqs()
{
       echo "$PREREQ"
}

case $1 in
# get pre-requisites
prereqs)
       prereqs
       exit 0
       ;;
esac

. /scripts/casper-functions

log_begin_msg "$DESCRIPTION"

echo -e '[Desktop Entry]
Type=Application
Icon=gohome
Name=My Documents
Name[fr]=Mes Documents
Name[nl]=Mijn Documenten
Name[de]=Meine Dokumente
Name[sv]=Mina dokument
Name[rs]=Моји Документи
Name[it]=Documenti
Comment=Open File Manager in your Home
Comment[fr]=Ouvrez le gestionnaire de fichiers dans votre Home
Comment[et]=Lehitse failisüsteemi ja halda faile
Comment[fi]=Selaa tiedostojärjestelmää ja hallitse tiedostoja
Comment[ja]=ファイルシステムをブラウズし、ファイルの管理を行います
Comment[nl]=Home-map openen in bestandsbeheerder
Comment[de]=Der Dateimanager öffnet ihr persönliches Verzeichnis
Comment[zh_TW]=瀏覽檔案系統及管理檔案
Comment[sv]=Öppnar din home-mapp i filhanteraren
Comment[rs]=Погледајте Ваше Документе
Comment[it]=Apre il File-Manager sulla vostra Home
Categories=FileManager;FileManager;X-MandrivaLinux-System-FileTools;
Exec=pcmanfm %U
StartupNotify=true
Terminal=false
MimeType=x-directory/normal;inode/directory;
Encoding=UTF-8
X-Desktop-File-Install-Version=0.11' >/root/home/$USERNAME/Desktop/home.desktop

echo -e '[Desktop Entry]
Type=Link
Icon=user-trash.png
Name=Trash
Name[de]=Mülleimer
Name[fr]=Corbeille
GenericName=Trash
GenericName[de]=Mülleimer
GenericName[fr]=Corbeille
Comment=Contains trash
Comment[de]=Beinhaltet gelöschte Dateien
Comment[fr]=Fichiers supprimés
Categories=FileManager;FileManager;X-MandrivaLinux-System-FileTools;
URL=trash:///
StartupNotify=true
Terminal=false
MimeType=x-directory/normal;inode/directory;
Encoding=UTF-8
X-Desktop-File-Install-Version=0.11' >/root/home/$USERNAME/Desktop/trash.desktop

log_end_msg


then making it executable:
chmod +x /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/26desktop_launchers
maybe you could find something such as this, on the forums at Remastersys ?


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